Escaping Chicago with Lee Firestone

I would go to school in the morning and then take off the rest of the day. Uh I start I was running with little gangs and everything at the time. Uh dad found out boy he whooped the beeers out of me. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Firestone Files. I'm Dr. Chris Firestone. Today I have something special for you. I have an interview with my brother, Harold L. Firestone, Jr. Yeah, he's my older brother, a couple years older than me. And uh he goes by Lee, so I may call him in the interview Lee Firestone at points, but anyway, I have him here for you.

Um get to know him. He lives out in California and uh you get to hear the guy I grew up with and uh maybe there's be some insights there that I don't foresee. And uh I hope you enjoy it and uh excuse me, I look forward to uh you know, bringing this to you. Hey, welcome back everybody. This is Dr. Chris Firestone and this is the Firestone Files. Super excited today to have my brother in town and I don't know how I coaxed him into joining me here today. Um, but he is here and you guys have heard on previous broadcasts about him and uh our time together growing up and so forth. But I wanted to bring him in here and get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. So, uh, how are we gonna call you? Is it Lee Firestone? Harold Firestone? How How do you want to be?

Yeah. It's a little strange, isn't it? Because Lee's nowhere near not a legal name for me at all. Okay. Yeah. Well, is you're Harold uh Firestone Jr. , right? Harold Leon Firestone. You're my older brother and you're bearing dad's uh name. You're the junior and and and Harry Firestone's the senior. And he goes by Harry and you go by Lee. And you remember what where Lee came from, right? Uh it's middle name, right? Leon. Is that Nope. No. What's it from? Well, it is a middle name. It's mom's middle name. Oh, okay. I see. You learned something. How about that? I've only known you 59 years.

Uh well, that's there's time. It's still I guess you've been around two and a half years longer than I have. Hopefully, that's translated into a little wisdom, but we will find out. It's already showing. Well, it's good to have you here. Now, um, for the sake of the listeners, I promised them to get to know you a little bit, talk about our upbringing together and about some of the things you've done. And I'll just prompt you a little bit. Maybe we can hear from you regarding some of these things. Um, let me start with where you are and who you're married to and what you're doing right now and then we'll head backwards together.

So, I'm a field technician for a calibration lab. Been working there how many years now? 32 years. Okay. So, um yeah. Uh Caroline Caroline Firestone obviously my wife. Uh yeah, she's let's say two part-time jobs basically makes it full-time. Put them together. Okay. Um yeah. And she's doing a lot of uh caretaking or child care, I should say. Okay. Working preschool and then working also working for a family. So you've been kind of situated there for quite a few years now. So a lot of what we're going to talk about is prior to that, but some of it will be uh during those years. Now you aren't only the lab technician, you're also uh a jiu-jitsu guy.

Is that right? Yeah. I'm not getting paid for it right now, but yes. Okay. How long have you been doing that? that uh that's under contention because I don't remember the exact year, but I believe since uh around I'm g I'm guessing uh about 95 or so. Okay. So, that's uh that's a solid 30 years or so. Yeah. What kind of level? I I don't really know jiu-jitsu levels and so forth. Where where are you at in your training? It's sixth degree, but it's it's not just jiu-jitsu. It's karate and judo.

Sixth degree what? Black belt. Black of course. There's no other degrees. Well, that's pretty cool. Uh, you know, I'm I'm a black belt in the mental game and so, you know, maybe we got a little similar thing going contention there, too. Okay. And uh and um what else do you like to do? Anything else that kind of defines what you're doing out there in California? Anything else? Uh not really. That takes up a lot of my time. We we you know we put on uh events like competitions uh clinics uh uh all that kind of stuff you know with the school and we're doing it as community outreach now.

We used we used to run a big school in in Fullerton College. Yes. Ever since COVID happened that threw that off and college doesn't like doing a lot of uh martial arts anymore like they used to, you know. I see. Yeah. I see. And now tell me, I'm I'm going to try to go backwards a little bit. This may be a little unorthodox the way I do it. Jiujitsu and you know, you were going to talk about this a little bit as we go along, but you were in the military and the Marines back before you did this job. Um, how much of that do you think can be traced back to your upbringing, would you say? I mean, oh, there's a big Yes.

Okay. So, tell me a little bit about that. How do you see those connecting? Okay. Well, you don't remember, but I took judo for a little while when it was I don't even remember 11 maybe 12 years old. Okay. At the YMCA, which still is which is still in South Chicago. Is that right? It's still standing and I think it's still in operation and it's a it's an old building. Well, you mentioned South Chicago. What I don't think people necessarily know on the podcast is that you and I grew up on the south side of Chicago. Yeah. Couple of Well, let's just call it what it is.

Caucasian brothers on the south side. Didn't know any other Caucasian brothers really. I mean, maybe one or two here and there, but uh we were we were in a in an all black neighborhood growing up and it became it became that way over time there for for as far as I can remember it has been, but I I'm sure it was, you know, I was pretty young. I don't remember what what how old I was when we moved there, but it has to be something to ask dad when he gets Okay. Yeah, I'm going to try to interview a dad here somewhere. The point is though, yeah, you're right.

But I'll tell you a story. What what what mom has said. She, you know, she used to work for uh what's the name of that design company? Oh, yeah. It was uh some sort of Oh, it was a cool name, but ink with uh with screens. Yeah, they did all kinds of weird stuff like that. But yeah, anyway, she was coming home from work at nighttime. I forget what time of year. Uh but she said, "Oh, all the families they she swear that yeah, they were moving out in the dead of night." You know, this their stereotypical white flight, but I think it was actually it was a lot of Jewish people lived in the neighborhood at the time.

Okay. Too. So, uh but as soon as Yeah. some black people start moving in. There's a lot of people start taking off. Um and by the time you and I were like conscious, like five, six, seven, eight years old, it was pretty much an all black neighborhood that point. We went to Bradwell Elementary School for a Well, you went a couple years. I went for a year. That experience was not I forget how long, but yes, it was not the best. A few years I went. Uh no, I remember Yeah. Yeah. Walking you walking with you to school.

Uh yeah. Our parents didn't drop us off or anything. We would walk there, but and half the time you get accosted by the some other neighborhood kids between our neighborhood and the school. Yeah, we'd have our ex uh yeah, adventures. Yeah, I I remember going to class and again at a public school in Chicago and it was a very difficult time for both of us. I think I used to walk behind you so that I wouldn't get beat up on my way to school and you would go off to your class and I would go off to my class and then uh that was a pretty tough tough uh school environment in our in our early grade school years.

Yeah, that that it was it was something for sure. You know, it's at it's at a very volatile time race relationships and everything. So, and that didn't escape me as a kid either. You know, you know, you you you figure that out real fast. Yeah. So, we're talking here basically the late 60s all the way into the mid70s. Um we're here on the south side of Chicago just really growing up and uh we have a lot of positive memories associated with it but we were cognizant of the fact that we were minorities in the neighborhood you might say.

Yeah. That the weird thing is we um we had we had great times with with with the people on our block for the most part. You know that you I even told dad you know I wouldn't trade that time for you anything. I I I wouldn't I wouldn't trade it for any other, you know, way. We had some really good times. They're I guess they're unique. Um found that out once we moved to a suburb uh later on uh right before high school, during high school, right? Yeah. Um and we boy uh a little bit of culture shock for us really, you know. That's absolutely right.

Yeah. I do remember moving away from the southside to Bellwood, Illinois. I went to Proviso West High School and um it was a more cosmopolitan neighborhood for sure. It was more representative of the United States as a whole in that neighborhood. Yeah, you Yeah, that'd be easy to say. But but Ford then we're talking about Okay. So, uh I I'll advance a little bit because there you were that young. Um yeah, we had a lot of things. Uh I Okay. And later on I I quit going to school. I would go to school in the morning and then take off the rest of the day. Uh I start I was running with little gangs and everything at the time. Uh dad found out. Oh boy, he whooped the beeers out of me. Uh it was it was Yeah, it was a culture almost a gang type culture. Kids getting together. They didn't always have parents around.

We didn't always have parents around because they were working full-time and uh kind of clocking us in and out. And uh in the middle of those times, you and I were wandering around the neighborhood. Oh yeah. But yeah, a couple neighbors knocked me out. I I made the mistake of walking through the block and you know, dad found out. Yeah. Okay. I remember him calling me into dinner once and this was during summer camp days. They would take us to the camp so they could go work again and uh and then they brought me in. you were sitting at the table, dinner table, and and dad looks at me and he says, "Sit down."

I go, "Oh, what's going on?" And then he says, "Have you been playing hookie?" And I said, "Hookie? What's that mean?" He said, "Don't don't play dumb, boy." I was not sure I knew what it meant and that's what I was doing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he called us out on it because apparently you and I were roaming the neighborhoods during uh Oh, you were, too? Yeah. Oh, we were going Not all the time though. Not all the time, but I was hanging around. You're right. I do remember that. There was a time. You're right. I forgot about that. Uh yeah. Yeah, we did. Uh the thing is, yeah, we got a little trouble here and there, you know, little fights here and there and stuff, but um dad, you know, the our parents really they wanted to change that real fast and they did. You know, they what they ended up doing was sending us to Emanuel Lutheran.

That's right. Grade school. That's right. So, they pulled us both out of Bradwell Elementary, which was a public school. I'm not sure how they afforded it at the time, either. It was not easy for them. Well, they knew something was wrong because neither one of us was learning a whole lot. We were about the streets. Well, yeah. Yeah. That was the thing. You know, in the morning, I remember at Bradwell, the teacher would write, we would have to copy something about the day, right? You know, she'd write it on the blackboard. We all have to copy the part of learning how to write and everything.

I didn't do that. No, I had two little girls next to me. They were more than happy to do my work for me, you know. Um, and when I got to uh Emanuel Lutheran, I couldn't read or write, you know. I couldn't do that. What's that? Third grade level. Third, fourth grade. I can't remember what grade it was. We started. Okay. And uh no, I couldn't read or write. And they they I remember the the night, you know, mom come and said, "Well, looks like they want to bring you back a grade." Oh my. No, that was Oh, that's the public school system for you.

We were We weren't able I was in first grade. You were in third grade. I do remember the day because they had the grades together, second and first grade together, and you came walking in the room. It was the happiest day of my life because there was my brother coming back. Wasn't your happiest day, but it does say something about the educational experience we were both getting up to that point.

Uh, mom and dad, they Yeah. And I tell you what, what's it you were in Mr. Ber's class? I think I think we were separated the first year for about half the year or something. And that's when they said, "Well, I came to Mr. about maybe you're right. Maybe you're I Yeah, I remember Mr. Balfford though he's having me read and he was having no monkey business whatsoever. I had no discipline at all and man that guy I I start putting my foot up on my chair and everything. He could get that thing back there, you know. He's you know uh Yeah. And that Yeah, that was a strong man too.

They also had the paddle as I recall. Oh no. Yeah, there was corporal punishment for sure, man. That that I got real used to that. Um, yeah, they were not messing around with those paddles, I tell you what. Or even soap, you know, putting soap in your mouth. Uh, if caught, not cousin, just talking a couple of the teachers and that that stuff would burn after a while. That's Yeah, I learned to swallow sometimes. Does that change your view just as an aside of court punishment or do you take it as a good thing now? Oh, no. I needed it. There's no doubt about it. They They were not going to straighten me out without it.

Yeah, I kind of remember that myself as well. I was a bit of a talker and an instigator, as you know. Oh, yeah. Okay. They pulled me out for the paddle more than once. Yeah. So, Chris talking about instigating. That's right. Some of the fights we got into walking to school and they had Chris, he may be right, but just because you're right doesn't mean you should say it kind of thing, you know. Yeah. got us into some some sticky problems every once in a while that you learn how to, you know, take care of that sometimes. So, yeah. Well, it was good to have a bigger brother, I have to admit.

Uh cuz I could I could throw out something and then stand behind you and say, "Go get him, Lee." There was one I don't know. Yeah, you were not with me at that time. I was a walk around friend of mine and this this bigger kid, I guess my friend liked his uh his sister and I don't know if you remember, his name was Lee, too, believe it or not. Uh but he uh he started getting in a fight with him because he would tease his sister, you know. It's part of growing up. Yeah. Well, well, yeah. When you like somebody, you kind of pull on their pigtails or whatever.

All that kind of thing. He's he's doing that and then and then he's fighting with him. So, I see he's getting the best. Come on, man. You got Okay, you got to know. So, and then he starts swinging at me, you know, smack him between the eyes, broke his glasses in half, and uh, you know, he's crying, running home with his sister and everything. And then his mom comes to our house. If you're I don't know if you That happened a few times, so I'm not sure what it was.

That poor kid. But yeah, his his mom's yelling, "You can buy me a new pair of glasses." Yeah. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Well, one of one of the other they they put us in Emanuel Lutheran to get us sort of out of those uh neighborhoods as much as possible. They also took us down to uh what's it called? First United Methodist Church on Sundays where we would go on Sundays and go downtown. And uh that was good instruction for us. I think it introduced us both to the church life, the the gospel, some of the basics. So did Emanuel. I mean we I I don't know you.

I I got uh confirmed in both churches. Oh, right. If you remember that. Yeah. We we had mandatory confirmation class at Yes. Was it seventh and eighth grade? Something like that. The combination of the discipline and the teaching I think began to sort of work its way through us a bit and made us Oh, it did. More civil than we otherwise would have been. Not to mention, okay, uh we start, you know, uh you know, they brought me back a grade. They put me in summer school. Mom and dad also put me in summer school, which was awesome. I I caught up a lot, you know, in summer school. Yeah.

you know, uh, and yeah, that that definitely helped a lot. And then you you were roaming our neighborhood and that all our friends, you know, I don't know if you remember, but they they were they enjoyed having us read to them and things of that nature. We were uh uh uh we were way ahead as when you when you talk about um scholastically being able to read, comprehend, uh mathematics, all things like that that these kids you you knew were not getting a proper education. You could I I could see that, you know, we were be we became leaders of our block kind of thing if you remember.

Yeah. You know, uh our house was the place to be a lot. It was a refuge I think for a lot of kids really. They felt safe there. I mean, one of the things dad would do go around the neighborhood and build baseball teams. I remember that. We pile kids in from all over the neighborhood and then we go it was basically two Caucasian boys with a bunch of uh African-American kids and then we'd go play the Spanish league. Yeah. Well, yeah. That that's the weird Yeah. We we played organized baseball over at Russell Square Park, which is mostly Mexican, Polish type neighborhood. Uh and it's there's a lot of Mexican kids playing. Uh not not too many white ones really, but yeah. And uh yeah, real bush league type stuff, you know. It's but it was organized baseball, right?

And and we we we became pretty good at it, too. Um and and that was that was a stark um real uh not stark. It was it was very realistic when Yes. We we had Jack coach a team if you remember with the neighborhood kids. They played our team from uh Russell Park and it was it was it I would say it was very humiliating for them. Yeah. Because you're trained guys versus this guys from the hood. Yeah, but those are the difference in differences you see.

Now, and the other thing I tell people, I don't know they believe me, you know, where I, you know, out in California and stuff is is in our neighborhood, I think after I don't um this one kid left the block, we were the only kids that had fathers in the house as far as I can remember. Right. I can't remember if anyone else did. They were all single mom households. Now, if you fast forward, I don't know if you even know this, but about 20 years later, I invited one of our friends out to you told me about I I wasn't there for Yeah. His name was Andre. And Andre Cole, and he was my age, and we brought him out. And you're you're right. He didn't have a father in the home. He had a much tougher go of things there on the south side. And um yeah, it was just a stark sort of wakeup call to me about life.

Yeah. What year are you talking about? just like cuz we left right in the late7 it would have been about 20 you know 35 so I would say it would be about uh 18 years ago or so maybe even earlier 20 20 years ago um but it was a wakeup call to me about life lessons about discipline education yeah getting up and moving to a more blessed environment I mean don't get stuck in a rut I mean I've done other podcast shows on this very thing about getting up and moving. And our parents, it's hard for a single parent.

I get we were blessed by these guys finally saying, "Let's get out of the neighborhood, sell the house, move out to the suburbs, and uh and uh yeah, a lot of good things." We couldn't do that for the longest time. That dad had a hard time after he broke his arm. They had a hard time. Well, he won't admit it either, but yeah, he doesn't admit some of these things. But mom told me, "Yeah, we had a rough time." Uh I remember you we lose one glove somewhere. It was like the end of the world, you know, in the winter, you know. Oh, now you're going to have mismatched gloves. I just won't wear gloves. And but you know, the thing was no, we we had some rough times.

Yeah. Um financially and uh what was I going to say? So, and she had to push dad to find a job because he was more entrepreneurial. He liked owned the garages. He was an accountant. photographer. Photographer. Um but he he just was we weren't making it as a family after a while. And and and that's when he found a a job at the post office. Yes. And that job at the post office became our lifeline. Really? Right. Because it got him in Chicago. It eventually got transferred out to Bellwood where we then moved to a new house. We went to Roosevelt Junior High School for a short time.

Then we went to Proviso West High School. And um you know what? Any thoughts about that experience at Proviso West? Yeah, it was hard to um hard to fit in really. They was very it was very clickish even though like you said it was it was pretty much diverse uh demographics I'd say. Right. Um and uh but still we weren't quite accepted. I think even we we played I know you we both played football, ran track a lot. that was really good on the track team and um and um I don't think we had a chance to get on the baseball teams, right?

Because they knew who they wanted and that's who it's going to be and that was it. No matter how good we were, I think I remember football I needed to be coached. I need a lot of coaching. I didn't know that much about you know route running and yeah, all that stuff. All that kind of thing. But one thing I did know and I found out real soon. I was the fastest guy on the team except for one guy that didn't that didn't come out for summer that you know Bob Border if you remember. I'm sorry to drop names. Very fast. Okay. Dude broke uh state records and all the sprint things.

But yeah, they put him on the team even though they they promised us you don't come and practice you ain't playing. Yeah. Well, guess who started playing soon as they came on the team? Yeah. Yeah. I I do recall it was a culture shock and find trying to find your place. Athletics was the one place where we could because it's merit-based. We could kind of fit in and and find a home. But it really was difficult not growing up in the neighborhood starting in a new place. But you know what? There was still some real value in there for us. I mean we No, there was schooling was a lot better than we were used to.

The the athletics were a little more organized. And uh now you uh tell me if I'm wrong here, but you met your wife during those years those early years was it when actually yes later well before I joined the Marine Corps but yeah yeah when I senior okay well she was three years older than me she was out of school.

Okay, you know so you met and um fell in love, decided to get married and join the Marine Corps. So let's I mean we could talk about high school a lot. Maybe we'll have another time to do that, but I'm just trying to get a panoramic view of your life. And so tell me what what went into your mind going from the high school to the military. Was that part of your upbringing showing itself or is this a new adventure? A little bit. Yeah. I I it it was more towards my mindset. I knew I wasn't going to go to college and my mind wasn't right right for that.

Uh you know, dad until he was surprised I graduated high school. I I never did homework, but I could test well. Yes. you know, and and um yeah, long as and I did go to class. I always went to class and whatever homework I just I didn't get done in school just not getting done, right? You know, it'll be late or whatever. Um and and yeah, uh so I had a little difficult I I graduated. It was no problem graduating. Just uh I I was not ready for a college or something. I knew I I would it was a waste of money to do it and it difficult to support two of us in college at the same time. I don't know if they could have handled that.

So, the military, is that a quick fix or is this an opportunity that you've been eyeing for a long time? Because I remember when it happened, I was shocked. I'm like, what? He's doing it. Yeah. But you know what? I read I I had this one, it was it was in a form of kind of a com animation. It was about the Marine Corps. You know, I love the uniform and everything. They talk always, you know, first to fight and every that I kind of like that idea. And uh no matter what MOS, you know, military occupational specialty you go into, you're you're a you're a rifleman first.

It means you could be taken out of there, thrown into a fighting unit, you know, at any time, you know. So you like that sort of dynamic, learning a skill, but also ready to fight. You guys are on the front lines if necessary. Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. And that kind of was like your upbringing on the south side of Chicago. You're kind of always on the front lines. Well, no. And it it's a it was a challenge, you know. another culture shock. I'm, you know, not used to someone yelling at me, you know, 247 and sleep deprivation, all that kind of thing.

And where did the military take you in terms of countries or what what was your experience? Deployed a couple times just uh mostly, you know, deployed to Okinawa, Japan, but I I would take a little time off here and there or take a long weekend if I have time on the books or something and and go to uh Korea, a couple which I enjoyed a lot. Okay. Uh, yeah, just seeing different culture and Korea is very commercial.

They do a lot of manufacturing there and you could buy stuff for cheap and you know, I don't know if you sent a lot of stuff home and stuff and you know stuff went to Caroline and you know it was So, how many years were you in total in the Marines? Eight years. Eight years. And tell me if I'm wrong here, but I remember you leaving those deployments and ending up in Hawaii. Is that right? No, that my first uh enlistment was in Hawaii. Okay. And as soon as I I got to Hawaii, like a couple weeks later because we were new, but uh the squadron we were assigned. When I say we, I had a couple of friends that hap this happened to at the same time. We were new and they had a full They didn't really need us there. It was it was a full squadron and everything.

And uh yeah, they didn't want to have to train a couple more. They send the fat us out to temporary duty to special services. I ended up uh uh teaching people water skiing which I never done before but I I learned quick and renting out boat sailboats and ski as a marine. Yes. And I also rent out scuba gear and I did a lot of scuba diving at the time too. I I got certified for that. Uh stuff like that. And but I did finally go back to the squadron and and uh yeah and I I got on I I started a cruise got in as a door gunner.

I wanted to fly. So I fly flew to you know part of the crew of Sage 53s and stuff like that. And I was I was about to trying to get into get become a crew chief. I did they I I reinlisted and they wanted to send me to California to another deployable squadron. That's where I started deploying on the second enlistment. Oh, okay. And did I I seem to recall, tell me if I'm wrong, that you did some work with helicopters. Yeah, that's what I did on the flight line. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's why I I started flying and and crewing those things. So, we did uh first I I I would do flight line work and then like I said, we do a lot of pre-flight, post-flight uh u maintenance and everything on the birds. So, and so after this eight years, why didn't you sign up again?

Ah, waste of time. Why is that? What do you mean? Okay. Marine Corps a little different from the other branches because I I knew some people from the Navy over there too. Uh, uh, merit doesn't get you anywhere per se. Sometimes it's if there's not an opening, they have x amount of openings per, you know, per, you know, E1, E2, E3, E4, you know, all the way up. And we were real topheavy. We had still had a lot of Vietnam veterans filling all the top spots. And this is in the 80s we're talking about. Yes. From 80 to 82 to 90. Yeah. Okay. 82 to 90.

This is the is it Reagan era? Is that a lot of it? Yeah. Okay. Um and uh let's see where was it. So yeah, there was no one getting out and the only ones getting promoted. This is at the time of uh what did they call it? Affirmative action. Okay. So only people getting pro promoted were um people of color uh women uh and that's it. Yeah. And and uh or until an opening open. Well, sometimes even they took the openings. We were still uh competing for the same openings, right? Uh I had all top scores in and uh physical fitness test top scores in at the rifle ranges. In fact, there's another episode there. I did a lot of that, too. Uh, competitively for I remember you were sharp shooting.

Yeah. Well, yeah, I was competing at the time. We had international matches, uh, intram murals and stuff and yeah, that was as a lance corpal. So, I was low man on the total pole on the on the team. Okay. At that time, but so you kind of progressively came to the realization that the Marines were not going to be a career for you, right? That's what I first time I ever got real belligerent with a gunnery sergeant. He was my career planner. You go and talk to he's trying to get me to reinlist again and said, "Well, what are you going to do to get me promoted?

I got four years. If I don't make staff sergeant by my 12th year, it's an automatic kickout, right? You know, it you're just kick you out no matter what." And I was just a corporal at I was the senior corporal in the entire Marine Corps at the time. Oh, wow. Yeah. And and I just tell him, "What are you gonna do for me?" He said, 'Well, uh, you know, at the time there was a time you could do drill, you become a drill, uh, instructor or do barrack studio. Basically, you work at embassy, something like that. And you can really fly up the ranks doing those type of things.

That didn't appeal to you. No, they changed the rules. You had to be a sergeant or above. And I catch 22. I was stuck at corporal. I couldn't get sergeant. Now, you have to get sergeant. Get to staff sergeant. I see. So it became a a pretty clear choice for you at that point. It would have been a waste of my time. What was the move then? You were in Were you in San Diego or Hawaii at that point? No, I was in Tustin, California. Tustin, California. And then So what was the plan leaving and where'd you go from the military? I didn't go anywhere.

I stayed right there in Tustin and you know just I had odd jobs for a while. It was a bad time to get out. Yeah, it was a bad time going. How long is that period before you land the job that you've been in for 30 years? It was a while. It was a few years, I think. Okay. Um Yeah, because yeah, I was doing things like uh was it slurry seal? Uh you know, it's like the the black top they put on Yes. to resurface streets and everything. What a dirty job that was. It paid decent that you know uh I worked for a motorcycle shop.

Yeah. Yeah. As a Honda shop. Yeah. I did that. I I really like that. didn't pay a lot, but when I got good in sales and I didn't sell buy, I sold parts. So, I I got good in that and start I started getting decent commissions from that, too. But broke my wrist. That that's a whole different story. Yeah.

And so you How did you find that current job that you have now? Help wanted ads. All right. So, you you And they were willing to train and I started minimum wage training, which was I forget how much that was at the time, like $8 an hour, maybe. Yeah. Not even that maybe I can't remember. Yeah, it was not much. You know, supporting a wife and and during that time, oh yeah, while I was in the Honda shop, she had gotten her surgery for, you know, to relieve her uh seizures, epileptic seizures. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that part of the story. So, when we I How could I forget this?

Because when we were uh in the end of my high school years, you were dating and Caroline had epileptic seizures pretty regularly. I don't know how many. A couple a day maybe. No, no, no. It wasn't that much, but she had bad days. Okay. She had bad days like that. Yeah. Sometimes she could go maybe a month without a seizure, you know, but but it was nowhere near regulated at all. you know, she took drugs for it and everything, but nothing really helped that much.

Yeah. I would I remember I'd give her rides in the car and then I'd be she'd be in a passenger seat, suddenly she'd have a seizure and I'd have to slap my arm over her against the wall because she could take the car down if you if you let her. Um, so how did just out of curiosity, how did that play out? And didn't she finally get an operation or something? How what you know? Well, yeah, we were real lucky in that, you know, we were in California was a good place to be for that kind of thing because they had what they call Medicare. She was on Medicare, Medicare because she was she had to get social security benefits, real tiny benefits when it wasn't much of anything, but but the medical was good for her.

Okay. um because impossible to find a job even though it's illegal to discriminate against people that that have disabilities like that, but she was discriminated against. But uh to be fair, I don't blame them too much, you know. Uh it um but the point is Yeah. So on medical, we we didn't have to pay for anything for that surgery. Believe it or not, medical picked up what Medicare wasn't covering. I see. And and how do you feel like that experience went? I mean, was it Okay, so we we uh our her neurologist uh um referred a doctor. He said, "Oh, uh UCI Medical Center has one of the top surgeon, top brain surgeons in the world basically."

And I don't remember his name. I wish I remember his name, but um yeah. Uh and we went in and he consulted with us and told us the what what you know the the risks and everything and uh quite a few risks but he was and uh we had to go through a lot of tests. He had she had to go through a battery of test very uncomfortable tests. Yes. And um uh and she he said she's she's a good candidate. We I think we have a localized place in her brain that we can take care of.

Yes. And and so he says, "I think we can minimize a lot of those." He he really set my mind. I wouldn't say quite at ease because, you know, it is brain surgery, right? But he he did convince me that this is a real good chance because I did notice I think that in the adult years usually seizures taper off. No, she got worse. I see she got and she she ended up breaking her ankle one time. uh broke uh cracked her cheekbone one time and you know she did it in taking a shower and hit against the tub, hit her face on the tub and uh things like that.

Um so I said, "Yeah, we we got to take care of this cuz we you got no life like this, right? There's there's no life like this, you know." Yes. Um uh so we said, "Well, we're going to do it." And we put her in and she had the surgery. Um she she came out like a trooper, man. I mean, she of course, you know, she after surgery, she's got a tube sticking out of her skull, you know, to relieve fluid buildup and everything. It looks horrible, but she she came out of it really really good. The the worst thing that happened, the only problem she had after the surgery is that yeah, he I think they bruised the optic nerve or something.

And as from that point on, she had to wear glasses to correct her vision cuz before that she didn't have any problems. But she he told us that there was a there's a you know a risk you could lose sight or something even you know if they you know uh go too close to optic nerve or sever it or anything. I don't know.

Uh but but that's that's the worst that happened and the migraines. Uh after that we did have yeah she had problems with migraines. uh she still does now and it seems like the change of barometric pressure or something sometimes she has a little problem but otherwise she's a lot better. She's she's you know she drives now. She hasn't had a seizure since then. Yes. And we did keep her away from a car for two years before. I I went according to the law, you know, no seizures for two years and you can go tested get tested for driving. That's exactly we bought her that change.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, we noticed as well. It's just fabulous that she could make good to bring that up because yeah, that's a big part of our life, you know, and and we don't worry much about that anymore. I see. I see. So, um, just more recently then, uh, I thought you were going to have a job transition. You your business was sold, I thought. And then how does that played out in the last year or two? I don't know if I want to talk too because actually I have a non-disclosure agreement, too. Oh, do you? Yeah. So, but your company was sold and you're still with the company.

Yes. Okay. Oh, yeah. Well, yes, it's Cal Labs. I could say that much. Uh I've been with them for over 30 years, 32 years now. Okay. But yeah, they did the it was a familyun company. A family uh is more than half the people that were in the company. Oh, what eight people? Nine at the top that during the time we've been there. Most of the people were family. Yes. uh not our family obviously. Uh but um and they're getting older, you know. Uh so my uh our office um manager, she she wanted to retire and uh so she and the family decided, yeah, we're going to sell the place and yeah.

Um Okay. And they she found a good f a place that would take care of us. I see. And that's Linger/acredited Labs. Okay. And so that's been a reasonably positive transition. Yeah, I I I think so. There, you know, it takes some getting used to because everything I do is on an app now, you know, like there's no time clock to punch in, which you used to have. It's done on your phone, right? I have trouble remembering the clock in and out sometimes. It's it just I'm a field technician, so sometimes, right, I never had to do that for for lunch and stuff like that.

So, you're on vacation right now from this new gig, but same gig, but new gig. And um you're down here in Hot Springs in the $1,000 question. Maybe it's $10,000. You don't do this to me. What's it going to take to keep you here? I mean, we're trying to get you to, you know, think about not retirement, but a new chapter coming to Hot Springs, Arkansas. Well, yeah, our chapter changed a little bit, you know, with this new company and and they're paying me more. Uh benefits cost me less. Uh it's good for for Carolina and we're doing better. So, you're set up pretty well for the time.

You're set up pretty well. Uh, I'll I'll tell you the truth, and I've told you this before, of course, if California keeps going the way it is. I don't know how much longer I can stay there, and and I will admit Hot Springs is is is on the top of my list if if I decide to vacate that that state. Okay. Well, that's a good promise. I mean, that's something that uh you know, it's a familiar place. Yes. you and Ben are here, you know, and well, I mean, you're here. That brings it down a little bit. Don't tell him that. Uh, anyone that spends time with us, you, you know, we got our bickering at times and everything, it's but no, we as brothers, we do what brothers tend to do, you know, but I I I still love my brother, but man, there's times, you know.

Yeah. We we for for pretty much our whole life we've uh gone back and forth. This is probably the most cordial and congenial conversation we've had in in a while. Not because we we we are expect Yeah. Yeah. some kind of jab. Some kind of Well, no. I What was I going to say? Polite company. You watching as they That's true. Yeah. Mind my P's and Q's. Yeah. Um, is there anything else you'd want to show us share in this life journey? Any lessons you've learned or anything that you There's still so much. Yeah. Oh, I know. I know. We've covered a lot.

We've covered you basically, you know, you know, and there's stuff that I have talked about in all those parts of our life. There's so much. Yeah. It was kind of eventful. Well, this is kind of why I wanted to get the ball rolling with the Firestone Files, get you on tape. And this is a macro view. In other words, you know, an overarching view. Okay. In that case, we went over quite a bit. Yeah. I'd love to do deep dives on the various aspects of life. Um, you know, because I do think part of what we do with the Firestone Files is try to not only get the stories, but get the lessons that we've learned and and uh and everything else with regards to, you know, how to how to just live life together, live well, be excellent, uh, and grow.

Oh boy. I haven't even started on that. But like we we did we did start with mom and dad taking us out of that the public school system and right putting us in a private school um a Christian school. Yeah. Uh which was huge. And uh yeah it it really I know it it puts you where you're at now. I'm sure. Yeah. There there's not a Yeah. Well, I do I do think we hit on a few themes just from the conversation here. the the order and discipline that was given to us. Um the the education and the opportunity to have a safe space to learn and then present us with new things to learn.

Getting up and moving. You know, if life isn't good where you are, then get up and move. I mean, this is something I've talked about on the podcast. Um, and um, you know, we haven't mentioned this one, but I think it comes out in your story, and that is, you know, new chapters. You mean you're leaving high school, leaving the Southside behind, leaving high school behind, going to see the world in the military, and then when you came back, you had a new kind of confidence to beat the pavement to get a job. Yeah. Um, and that's a whole other story.

Yeah. Yeah. No, you got to do what you got to do and then you're looking for a career in the middle of all that and uh by God's grace you stumbled into something. Yeah, you're right. Well, yeah. I mean, a lot of people could look at said I might have been well, not having children. There's a there's another thing because Caroline I the the surgeon did tell us there's a good chance Caroline could lose her life because of complications from there there were extra pressures um with the surgery and everything having children and everything. uh there's a good chance chance she wouldn't make it. And we decided, yeah, we're my brother's got enough children.

She he he did that for the both of us. The problem for that actually, you know, great kids. I don't know how it happened because Well, they've got a a great uncle and uh we we've um we've enjoyed being able to sort of share that with you over the years. you're far away in California, so we get out there every 3 to 5 years. We try to keep each other, but you've been gracious enough to come out and see us and be at key events like weddings and various other things. And so that's been really I think another one of those things with having a textured committed family that makes all the difference in the upbringing of people.

We talked about fathers, you know, being and I still it's so easy. So yeah, I I I got a wife I can't have children with, but I I do believe in commitment. Um and uh and and that well it helped having you know mom and dad together, you know, death to us until till we part, you know, kind of thing. Uh and and they did they lived by that.

Yeah. Then those weren't perfect years by any means. No, but you know, life isn't perfect. Yeah. And as much kind of conflict as we experienced with them, they always came back together and they made it work. And that was a big deal, you know, um to show that, you know, life has its ups and downs. And you and I both have stories of of our parents letting us down, but they kept moving forward and they kept trying to give us opportunities and that was a big deal for us. No, they're always behind us. They would they would back us up on on everything for sure.

Um, I said we were talking about that fight that woman came to the door and and mom wasn't backing down, man. She just told her, "Get off our property. I'll beat you off." Well, yeah. Mom was tough. That's Yeah, she was Boy, she she was something. Yeah. Well, um Well, there's a couple more stories about that, too. it. Yeah. Um and and to this part in in my life and your life here. The I'm finding my way religiously now. I'm still finding my way more. Um I I left our church in the Lutheran church in in California for numerous reasons. Mostly I felt that in instead of going the way of God, they're following man's path.

you know, on different situations and you just can't do that. You know, that's just not the right way to go and I I couldn't do that anymore. So, hey, I've been churched online now by Eric. I I I actually enjoy the sermons. I I I I like what he has to say. He's teaching from the Bible and that that's that's all I ask for. Eric Eric Capesy is the president of Champion Christian College. He's also the pastor, senior pastor of Gospel Light Church here in Hot Springs. And he does stream his uh his second service uh online. And you've managed to catch wind of it and been watching it.

How long you've been watching him now, would you say? Not every week, but I most weeks since since I left uh last year, I guess. Okay. So, about a year now. So, our lives have been parallel with uh with President and Pastor Capacy. um in terms of me being hired here at Champion and you being online listening to Gospel Light sermons, right? Yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. Yeah, I I did want to bring that. I got a shout out to to Eric, man. Yeah, he's he's good, man. I had my doubts. I I resisted when my brother he tried to get Yeah.

You tried to get me to come out and have dinner with him when he was in California. And I'm like, man, this man's a little intrusive, man. He just he just feels like he ransacked your life and all of a sudden you're you're moving to Hot Springs, Arkansas and and got a job here and everything and I said I don't know about this guy, man. He's he's a quick worker, you know. So I had So you resisted didn't have dinner with him when he was in California on vacation with his boys and but then you started listening to his sermons and you kind of say I kind of like this guy.

Yeah, I do like him. I I'll admit it. I think he's a good man. He's I I haven't haven't been able to spend a whole lot of time with him yet. Uh but I have spent some time, you know. Okay. Well, you're going to get to meet him more this week. You're down here visiting and how I know he's in town and so I'm sure he'll be delighted to talk with you and hang out a little bit. So, uh super excited to see that happen. Um I, you know, just for the record, I'd love to see you get involved in a local church, but I get there are seasons in life when you're on the move and uh some options are better than others.

Uh, and so, um, that's that's certainly a positive thing. So, um, I I've appreciated your witness in that area and, your commitment in that area over the years. So, well, I think we probably covered enough ground for now. Maybe we'll pick this up a little bit next time. And there's a lot more. So, yeah, we uh, Lee, thank you so much for taking the step of faith with me here on this Firestone Files podcast. Um, yeah, truly delighted that you're here and your your wife's here and we're having some time to hang out. And, uh, that's it for now. We'll pick us again some other time. If you're out there and you've got some questions or you want to hear us talk about one or more things a little more detailed, go ahead and write me and we'll we'll see if I can get an interview with him again some other time. Thank you very much. And that's it for the Firestone Files.

Thanks for stopping by to spend some time with me here on the Firestone Files. I hope today's reflections offered you some new insights and perspective on life. If you enjoyed the episode or found it valuable, I'd appreciate it if you'd take a moment to like, subscribe, and share it with someone you care about. I'd also love to hear your thoughts. What resonated with you? What challenged you? Or what would you like to hear more about in future episodes? Drop a comment below or send in your suggestions to the email in the description. Your input helps shape where we go next. This has been Dr. Chris Firestone. Until next time, keep asking the big questions and remember, the kingdom journey is always best with your friends. Further up and further in. Bye for now.